The only important suggestion I have is that there has to be some change with the veto and/or map picking system:
I know a big tournament like this requires a variety of maps. But CBA, CBA Hero and RCB are by far the most popular maps in CS, each map having its own Ladder. Thats why I think those maps should be more important in a tournament which is supposed to decide the currently best clan in CS. Taking dv8 vs Vicious as an example, we ended up having all our CB maps vetod and ended up having to pick Blood maps as even OUR home maps even though our clan is not really interested in Bloods. A clan should have the right to pick maps as their home maps theyre actually good at and not having to pick maps theyre bad at. Obviously, this is in interest of our clan performing better but there are plenty of other clans who are pretty good at CBs (Epic for example if they still exist) who would perform quite good compared to the big clans if the most popular maps receive more weight in such tournament. It would also make a - usually - very Bloods favored tournament more appealing to them to participate in in the first place. I myself for example dont feel very motivated to play in a similar tournament again if its having to play 95% bloods in the end.
You could change that for example by:
- allowing CBA and Hero to be picked in every cathegory and not blocking each other out like they used to.
- having them twice in each cathegory so for example in the 3v3/4v4 cathegory there are 2 CBAs and 2 CBA Heros, so if one CBA gets vetod with the current system, we could still pick it one more time (and before the Blood players start crying about how that would only result in them having to waste all their vetos on CBs and still having to play some in the end - well, then you know how we from dv8 felt like last time playing against Vicious and Xcel)
- changing the veto system like vetos not being able to veto CBs or granting each clan 1-2 immunities for example
100% agreed. The thing is that a team which is good in CBs has only three options: CBA, CBA Hero, and RCB. On the other hand, a bloods team is most of the time good in all bloods(Smosh,khans,vetz,germs,nova,path, etc etc.). So when it comes to using vetos, it hurts CB based clans much more than bloods clans. if both CBA and Hero are vetoed, the clan has no option (RCB maybe yeah) and they choose bloods in which they are obviously weak. When blood maps are vetoed against blood based clans, there would be hardly any problem because there is some or the other map which they are surely good in especially against a CB clan. So please give some importance to CBA,CBA hero,RCB. Last time Epic played CBA/Hero not more than 2 times i think that being their best map whereas blood clans enjoyed playing bloods.
What were the maps in last time only a handful know/ play? One that comes to mind is AoW but besides that I thought there was a pretty good map list overall.
Basically all maps outside of the popular CBs. Currently there are 394 people online in the CS looby, there are about 50 rooms open - 3 of them are unrated, one is a one-player-afk room with Europe TG who even got "Europe TG ...is dead" as desciption, all the rest is CBA, Hero and RCB. You cant tell me there are more than 50 players online right now, probably even way less, who know what Khans Blood is for example. You gotta face the fact that CBs are the only thing that keep CS alive since 95% of the matches are CBs and if this is a tournment whose winner is nominated the best CS clan then you cant have Blood maps outweight CBs. Ideally it should be 50/50 imo but if anything should have a bigger weight then its CBs not the other way around.
Basically all maps outside of the popular CBs. Currently there are 394 people online in the CS looby, there are about 50 rooms open - 3 of them are unrated, one is a one-player-afk room with Europe TG who even got "Europe TG ...is dead" as desciption, all the rest is CBA, Hero and RCB. You cant tell me there are more than 50 players online right now, probably even way less, who know what Khans Blood is for example. You gotta face the fact that CBs are the only thing that keep CS alive since 95% of the matches are CBs and if this is a tournment whose winner is nominated the best CS clan then you cant have Blood maps outweight CBs. Ideally it should be 50/50 imo but if anything should have a bigger weight then its CBs not the other way around.
I asked you what maps 'last' time as in 2016 TIW which were not played at all? if I remember correctly bloods were quite alive back then as the random ladder had tons of games daily... and this argument about CBA CBA hero and rcb keeping CS alive and them earning 2 or more spots in the tournament is still a joke. Bloods always have been a part of CS that has kept the game going for a long time... Majority of the blood players were playing tons of matches in the Europe TG ladder as well so thats partially the reason to the cs-random ladder fading out.
I'm all for having CBs have a bigger impact and the clans that primarily play CBs to not get veto ****ed but you're sounding like you think the entire tourney should be based around these maps only for the most part... so an Immunity should be put in place for sure... and some other suggestion you can come up with I will support.
yeah let's host more tournament for a dead community where the only people play are the same 15 people who played the past 7 years.
brilliant investment of your time.
You're right... lets just make the biggest CS tournament for 3 maps because 95% noobs still play these maps and the more experienced & skilled clans who have dominated all parts of CS for the last 6+ years now are a bit inactive and forget about bloods & other aspects of CS all together.
I asked you what maps 'last' time as in 2016 TIW which were not played at all?
I wasnt talking about TiW, I was talking about CS in general. Bloods and plenty of Alternative maps arent played on a daily basis, some havent been hosted once during my time on voobly. Just because people played them 10 years ago doesnt mean they deserve a spot in a tournament that decides the current top CS clan or deserve the same weight as CBA Hero for instance.
I remember correctly bloods were quite alive back then as the random ladder had tons of games daily...
You gotta face the truth that bloods were only quite alive during tiw because they were in the map pool and people practiced them. You think people woulda still played them if TiW didnt have any of these maps in the pool? TiW makes Bloods more popular, but only as long as its going on. Its not "lets put tons of bloods in the map pool again because theyre always so active during a tournament that has them in the map pool and thats why they deserve to be in there". That logic doesnt work.
Bloods always have been a part of CS that has kept the game going for a long time [...] but you're sounding like you think the entire tourney should be based around these maps only for the most part...
I acknowledge that they play an important role in CSs History and thats why I said
You're right... lets just make the biggest CS tournament for 3 maps because 95% noobs still play these maps and the more experienced & skilled clans who have dominated all parts of CS for the last 6+ years now are a bit inactive and forget about bloods & other aspects of CS all together.
true understanding of strategy never goes away
that's what separates the casuals like KoolSavas from the elite like ForgiveMe
CS-random was created for those less played blood/alt maps to get some playing time... I really cant think of a single map besides maybe like AoW which doesnt have any merit or deserve to be in the TIW map pack. All maps last TIW had to have atleast 2 votes from two clans. Even the generally less played blood maps like Graves which people may find boring got 3 votes from clans and has been a well played map from the past.
Yeah I dont deny its activity went way up with TIW and teams were practicing more... but even after and before the announcements CS-random back then had been quite active... only going more or less inactive when 7th/Eot/XceL stopped playing as much as we had & more recently when the active players our clans did have played tons of Europe TGs instead of Random TGs.
I'm not exactly sure what you want? I said doing immunities to prevent CB clans from being veto ****ed would be a good idea.. The only idea ive been entirely against is your idea to put two CBA's and 2 CBA hero's. I'd still assume that it would be the same democratic process where all clans vote in their top picks and the maps with most picks get selected into the final map pool... Likely CBA CBA Hero RCB & CBX will all be part of the map pack as its been for the last 2 years where you get plenty of CB to pick from at the same time.
Also this argument about how much a map is being played is getting old now... if you go to MS or NPL you will find mainly BF games hosted. The reason is very simple, Ease. BF is one of the easiest forms of RM so people just starting or wanting to play a fun casual game not having to worry about making army in feudal can wall up and boom and then fight. Same in CS... CBA Hero is most played because its the most readily available game type to play and the easiest to play for the casual gamers to just join a room and play... games available for most ratings from brand new players to more experienced with hundreds of games.
People should vote for the maps before the tournament begins. Some mainstream blood maps will probably get voted like Smosh, Veterans blood, Khans blood, and others. Voting options should be left open (i.e. it should not be limited by a pre-written map list by tournament hosts).
People should vote for the maps before the tournament begins. Some mainstream blood maps will probably get voted like Smosh, Veterans blood, Khans blood, and others. Voting options should be left open (i.e. it should not be limited by a pre-written map list by tournament hosts).
the way its worked in the past each clan gets to pick their top 5 maps in the 1v1/2v2 set.. and top 10 maps in the TG set... maps with the most overall votes get put into the map pool.. usually the 1v1/2v2 sets are 8-10 maps and TG set is 15+ or so... gives lots of diversity and different maps to pick from.
If I remember correctly, 2016s TiW had 18 maps in the TG pool, 4 of them being CBs, 14 of them bloods/alternative. I dont even want to imagine the crying of blooders if such tournament had 14 CBs and 4 Bloods in the pool. No offence but Eot wouldnt be in the gold league with such a map pool.
Anyway, Ive made my point and my suggestion along with it. Its up to Army to do something with it.
If I remember correctly, 2016s TiW had 18 maps in the TG pool, 4 of them being CBs, 14 of them bloods/alternative. I dont even want to imagine the crying of blooders if such tournament had 14 CBs and 4 Bloods in the pool. No offence but Eot wouldnt be in the gold league with such a map pool.
Anyway, Ive made my point and my suggestion along with it. Its up to Army to do something with it.
That's a bold statement with not a whole lot of claim behind it considering were already basically the best at atleast one of the CBs and can compete in most
but there isnt that many viable CB options or im sure we'd be seeing many more CB picks overall as theres quite a few CB players who sign up.
some time members gone inactive then...
I know a big tournament like this requires a variety of maps. But CBA, CBA Hero and RCB are by far the most popular maps in CS, each map having its own Ladder. Thats why I think those maps should be more important in a tournament which is supposed to decide the currently best clan in CS. Taking dv8 vs Vicious as an example, we ended up having all our CB maps vetod and ended up having to pick Blood maps as even OUR home maps even though our clan is not really interested in Bloods. A clan should have the right to pick maps as their home maps theyre actually good at and not having to pick maps theyre bad at. Obviously, this is in interest of our clan performing better but there are plenty of other clans who are pretty good at CBs (Epic for example if they still exist) who would perform quite good compared to the big clans if the most popular maps receive more weight in such tournament. It would also make a - usually - very Bloods favored tournament more appealing to them to participate in in the first place. I myself for example dont feel very motivated to play in a similar tournament again if its having to play 95% bloods in the end.
You could change that for example by:
- allowing CBA and Hero to be picked in every cathegory and not blocking each other out like they used to.
- having them twice in each cathegory so for example in the 3v3/4v4 cathegory there are 2 CBAs and 2 CBA Heros, so if one CBA gets vetod with the current system, we could still pick it one more time (and before the Blood players start crying about how that would only result in them having to waste all their vetos on CBs and still having to play some in the end - well, then you know how we from dv8 felt like last time playing against Vicious and Xcel)
- changing the veto system like vetos not being able to veto CBs or granting each clan 1-2 immunities for example
100% agreed. The thing is that a team which is good in CBs has only three options: CBA, CBA Hero, and RCB. On the other hand, a bloods team is most of the time good in all bloods(Smosh,khans,vetz,germs,nova,path, etc etc.). So when it comes to using vetos, it hurts CB based clans much more than bloods clans. if both CBA and Hero are vetoed, the clan has no option (RCB maybe yeah) and they choose bloods in which they are obviously weak. When blood maps are vetoed against blood based clans, there would be hardly any problem because there is some or the other map which they are surely good in especially against a CB clan. So please give some importance to CBA,CBA hero,RCB. Last time Epic played CBA/Hero not more than 2 times i think that being their best map whereas blood clans enjoyed playing bloods.
I'm all for having CBs have a bigger impact and the clans that primarily play CBs to not get veto ****ed but you're sounding like you think the entire tourney should be based around these maps only for the most part... so an Immunity should be put in place for sure... and some other suggestion you can come up with I will support.
brilliant investment of your time.
brilliant investment of your time.
true understanding of strategy never goes away
that's what separates the casuals like KoolSavas from the elite like ForgiveMe
Yeah I dont deny its activity went way up with TIW and teams were practicing more... but even after and before the announcements CS-random back then had been quite active... only going more or less inactive when 7th/Eot/XceL stopped playing as much as we had & more recently when the active players our clans did have played tons of Europe TGs instead of Random TGs.
I'm not exactly sure what you want? I said doing immunities to prevent CB clans from being veto ****ed would be a good idea.. The only idea ive been entirely against is your idea to put two CBA's and 2 CBA hero's. I'd still assume that it would be the same democratic process where all clans vote in their top picks and the maps with most picks get selected into the final map pool... Likely CBA CBA Hero RCB & CBX will all be part of the map pack as its been for the last 2 years where you get plenty of CB to pick from at the same time.
Also this argument about how much a map is being played is getting old now... if you go to MS or NPL you will find mainly BF games hosted. The reason is very simple, Ease. BF is one of the easiest forms of RM so people just starting or wanting to play a fun casual game not having to worry about making army in feudal can wall up and boom and then fight. Same in CS... CBA Hero is most played because its the most readily available game type to play and the easiest to play for the casual gamers to just join a room and play... games available for most ratings from brand new players to more experienced with hundreds of games.
Anyway, Ive made my point and my suggestion along with it. Its up to Army to do something with it.
brilliant investment of your time.
+++
Anyway, Ive made my point and my suggestion along with it. Its up to Army to do something with it.
but there isnt that many viable CB options or im sure we'd be seeing many more CB picks overall as theres quite a few CB players who sign up.