So at least as of now the next RCB Gold and/or RCB Gold Shadow version to be rated will be the last one of that type.

If you're against the idea of no future edits of this map after this please read these threads and comment:

RCB Gold Shadow Thread

Should only most popular maps be rated?

Look at the current design here and put down any suggestions you have and Is_this_my_name and I will consider them (also see below for list of suggestions so far and conclusions):

Scenario Download: [You must login to view link]

Think hard about it please and read through the discussion here.

Deadline: April 7th, 2012


For those of you that played the first shadow version note that weak harald and better imperial martel and robin have been removed and replaced with their 2011 v2 counterparts.


Suggestions with Conclusions So Far:

Remove the Genitour:
---The genitour is downgraded in this version and is easy to counter with a little planning. (Read Below for More) but since it seems like a lot of people dislike it I'll set it up so you can disable it on the kills/razes island.

I don't like the terrain in the new map:
---Be specific and compare 2011 v2 and Shadow F1 below and tell me exactly what you don't like. Prior I changed the water to deep water to decrease the brightness of the map. In my opinion grey (normal road terrain) next to tan (desert) is a lot worse than brown (road broken) next to grass (grass 1). Is it possible that you think there's too much brown in the main base and would like the grass in the shape of an X like in 2011 v2 to accent it (the X under the pyramid)?

RCB Gold 2011 v2

RCB Gold Shadow F1


limit the amount of genitours/skirms:
---They're easy to counter (read below) and the genitour costs three kings in this version and will have the option to be disabled at the beginning of the game.

Only thing i would say is when getting spawn units (Theo, Harald, williams) etc. make it so its 200 of them max rather 200 total units max: These buys would be too strong then for certain civilizations (e.g. persians, koreans, maybe byz) and it'd change the gameplay too much from 2011 v2. You currently get 200 military pop of theo, william etc. not including monks/civilian pop if that helps any.

Customizable spwaning gather point, like it is in cba with three differnt spwaning points that the player can choose from: Is_this_my_name had this idea prior but I/we forgot about it. It will be implemented so you can spawn to the back of the pyramid, long (to first set of gates) or very long (to the second set of gates).

I think expand the middle zone for Tamerlane is not enough for justify high spending of kings. "It needs at least another +1 ap every 7 secs for a total of +2 ap): Tamerlane is 9 kings now and every 4 secs compared to 10 kings and every 3 secs in 2011 v2. IMO Tamerlane + mid you just need to make sure you do it with significant pop but I agree that if you get a lot of martel at you you're screwed; Imp Aztec Charlemagne also beats Tamerlane, lol. It'll probably stay the way I have it now.

Add any new type of unit up top: ^Had normal Harald in before. People didn't like it. Archers of the eyes and Henry are back in at 2 and 4 kings respectively. Adding in another would require too much testing so it'll stay the way it is.

Ignore this...
---Fixed P2 directing units
---Genitour Option added on kills/razes island to be ENABLED at the Super Store
---Mode Selector Life Span Lengthened to 8 mins from 5
---Semi-new Terrain Completed including lengthening the base by one unit so you can build two stables/barracks etc at the back of the base.
---Adjusted Super Harald at the back of each player's base... should I add additional ap/hp to the buy?
---William changed back to 9 kings and every 5 secs
---Spawn Points Finished
---Decreased Amount of Stone Per Player by 1300 (was too big of an advantage to have 2500 prior), one bonus castle is enough + a little more for a tower or a couple gates
---Adjusted Koreans and Persians Related to this (koreans no stone taken away, persians actually given stone, 650 stone, at 25 minutes
---Changed Archers of the Eyes to every 4 secs
---Gave Friar +1.7k Hp
---Adjusted Messages

---Decided not to touch tiny island with paladins, frankish, and lord de graville

No Genitour.

Genitour will stay. With the missionary it's much easier to counter plus it's more kings (3 to be precise).

The genitour only really becomes a problem if people are camping which is when you treb them. I get a villager pretty much every game to create a ton of monks (your total number of monks doesn't effect your total number of units produced via respawn... 200 military of theo, william, etc and 200 not including other units of harald and khan), wall+gates in case of beli, william, etc, and a couple castles all for one more king. =P

oh. this thread got moved, which is why two versions show below atm. weird how when other people post scenario design things in the main cs section it doesn't get moved.

The main reason people don't play RCB anymore is because of the Genitour, enjoy making a map that 100 people are going to play.

If those people don't play the new version that's their problem; they can go back to 2010 v3. Like I said above it's easy to counter if you're not stupid and plan ahead a little bit. I've only seen it bought a few times in shadow and easily beat shortly thereafter... it's quite downgraded but not to the point of being irrelevant at which point it'd be gone completely.

Thanks for the input though.

Anything else?

i dont like the graphics of shadow map i.e the environment...why dont you just fix the bugs in the gold v2 2011 map and leave the visual aspect of the map unchanged

I've heard this before and I'm not sure why you guys think that way. Since then I changed the water to a darker color to decrease the brightness but I'm curious if there's anything else so...

Tell me exactly what you don't like above and I'll think about it.

In my opinion grey (normal road terrain) next to tan (desert) is a lot worse than brown (road broken) next to grass (grass 1).

Is it possible that you think there's too much brown in the main base and would like the grass in the shape of an X like in 2011 v2 to accent it (the X under the pyramid)?

There was a very good reason this whole map was remade and that was to make it so it freezes less through various means in addition to other things like room for transport ships behind the respawn island and getting everything on the map completely even. There's no going back.

lol. Why because of the genitour thing? Back up your statement kind sir.

These people had a choice when 2011 was first made to continue playing 2010 v3 or move to 2011 or stop playing; they didn't choose wisely. Plus, even if the genitour were removed it wouldn't change much of anything from 2011 to this version. The game play shifted drastically from 2010 v3 (henry war) to 2011 (much better civ war initially instead of everyone buying henry). So if these people quit when 2011 came to be they're going to be in for a rude awakening. I believe 2010 is still rated too ... so yeah.

or if you meant about the terrain thing I think it's obvious since I was remaking it I would add my own style

1.
for me the map has too much brown....maybe you should change it back to the color it was in 2011 v2 and add a bit of grass in all the bases(in the shape of X or +)..
i actually took a ss of the bases of both the versions and while the shadow base looks much more neat and better designed in the ss, while playing, the 2011 v2 version seems to be way better

2.
the map seems too big...2011 v2 was compact...with shadow it will take more time to move around esp if you got some slow movings units or heros

3.
the first time i played the shadow map,i actually lost five kings....you have divided the king spwan area into two parts separated by stones and bushes and i tried getting a vil from the other side but i ended up getting a single castle for 5 kings...so maybe you should make a hole that would allow kings to go from one side to the other.....anyone who plays this map for the first time is liable to make this mistake

4.
changes from one version to another should be as subtle as possible..with shadow its not the case...we are used to 2011 v2..if it was a new map we would probably have had no complaints

5.
geno is a must..monks can easily counter it and it gives the players with weaker heros an edge over the players with stronger heros


to sum it all in one sentence...for me it seems like the complexity of the map has increased even though it might not be the case

i started playing rcb with the 2011 v2 version..so i dunno anything about the previous versions..

Thanks for the input!!! I wish I got this good of input a long time ago. I'll just reply to this one now since I'm about to pass out. I'll reply to the rest sometime after I wake up.

The distance units have to travel in Shadow and 2011 is the about the same.
What's different is:

1. units need to travel about 2-3 squares more if they're spawned via the respawn island due to different location of the spawn flags and spawn point.
2. Castles are in the same location but just shifted one unit one way or another depending on their location in the base. This is because the bases are bigger in shadow but that was done for a specific reason which is to give you more room to build stuff with a villager and not have everything be so cramped.
3. Water behind the respawn island was added so you could potentially transport (boat) any other player anywhere on the map. So that's why the whole map is bigger.
4. I'll give you that the top and super store are probably bigger than they should be but they're as big as they are for aesthetic reasons. Plus, these bigger areas are offset by total visibility in the bottom store and a patch of visibility underneath the global relic up top. You need to spread the kings out like so to have total visibility: 6 up top and 4 at the super store in shadow compared to 5 up top and 2 at the super store in 2011 v2.

Really quick too. This has been drastically changed from the first version and I'm 100% sure it's been fixed. Download the scenario above and tell me if you think so as well.

Also, the reason these were separated was too make it "fair" in the previous version p8 took a long time to buy a single castle whereas here it's in the middle of all of the players. Lastly, you can't combine these areas since they're only programmed for players 1-4 and 5-8 so player 1 going to the right side would screw things up.
Screw it I'll reply to this too.

I agree that the first version of Shadow had its faults and was more complex. The F1 version, however, is much more like 2011 v2 and really the only things different are (not including the super store):
[*]Archers of the Eyes up Top for 2 Kings
[*]Charlemagne with Blast Furnance (Imp Attack Upgrade) @4 kings
[*]Henry like in 2010 v3 with Imp Barding Armor (Imp Cavalry Armor) @4 kings
[*]Legions Fury @6 kings
[*]Tamerlane at 9 kings instead of 10 with a larger power-up area
[*]William at 10 kings instead of 9 and every 4 secs instead of every 5 secs
[*]Mid with slightly larger area due to legions fury


... I need to tinker around with the map to reply to your first point. I'll do so asap.

So, you're not allowed to make maps for yourself and then expect them to be rated? So unrate half the map pack please... Most maps are made for fun, not for the community

I'm not sure where you get such thoughts from... I really need to pass out though. Tell your mutant killer giraffe I said hi and don't eat me.

Anyways, remove gen. We don't want to micro with units like in all other maps not with gen. Almost everyone wants get to be removed. Skrim is enough against campers.

Since you gave me good suggestions before and I just realized going by my own logic it won't change the gameplay much if it's removed/disabled so here's what I'll do:

• I'll add it to the kills/razes island and just like the other two things (disable shadow mode, enable global mode) it'll be there so you can disable the genitour.

However, if I do this I'm moving William back to 9 kings and every 5 secs or.... should I?

The genitour is used best when you purchase beli, william, and theo... having it disabled... this issue is probably the biggest one in considering whether or not to have the option to disable it.

Any other things you guys would like to have the option to disable?

Oh...last edit: Skirms suck. All you need to do is throw units on aggressive and continually stop them to counter them.

Only thing i would say is when getting spawn units (Theo, Harald, williams) etc. make it so its 200 of them max rather 200 total units max... but thats about it i couldn't really care about gen, its part of the game buy you could make the same version, one with, one without?