if you guys are talking about an additional TG round of only hero on top of the TG bo5 set that has already been there the last two TIW's thats just adding an extra 2+ hours to TIW for no reason.
Since we are few clans, does it matter how much time you can play to enjoy?
Yes, and you dont know what civis choose enemy.
Advantage for someone? I dont think so
Since we are few clans, does it matter how much time you can play to enjoy?
TIW in past years atleast some of the sets have taken about 5 hours or so. Usually played on a Sunday. Seeing as this wont be played during some big holiday time. Yes I think adding an extra few hours to a set that can already take a while is a big deal. For myself & you who live in South/North America it doesnt matter. To europeans it does matter though... but again this whole concept was only put into the world from a tired Frankie post so lets proceed what can possibly go wrong.
1 week for all CBA Hero round games. Not including anything else, nothing to force.
Alright man, you know best. You barely took part in the last TIW's. I've played in both previously and made it pretty much to the finals & semi's and not one single set was ever seperated and played on different days because you're having to organize usually a large group of people to all be on. But since you know best it will all happen without any problems at all, GL!
Please humble friend, it is a bo3, not a complete list, this can be done in less than 2 hours, considering that it can be extended a week to finish that.
Nvm you are totally right, How do I not know that people will just rather have 3 weeks for every set to complete to play an extra set that was just made up today. Carry on and dont mind me, Everything that was discussed in the last few posts will happen without any problems.
@Army, the discussion isn't really avout including CBA Hero, it will be in voted or automatically, it's more about if it can be forced etc and in how many rounds.
i had a talk with Kings yesterday and we find it very unfair that both cba and hero can be vetoed taking away that little advantage cbs clan, in comparison to the huge advantage bloods clan have to just pick another bloods if one is vetoed.
I think cba hero and desert blood should be auto in and cant be vetoed?
Therefore we firmly ask to auto immune cba hero in the tgs round, and i point out that Frankie had the same thought at the start, so xCs and IC are not trying or dicatating anything, thats Eot and Dy, we just agreed with what Frankie said.
As far im concerned the only clan that dont have known Hero mirror players is RB, xCs and IC both agreed to not pick any CB's againts them.
For the rest 1 immunity and 2/3 veto to each clan is fine for xcs.
i had a talk with Kings yesterday and we find it very unfair that both cba and hero can be vetoed taking away that little advantage cbs clan, in comparison to the huge advantage bloods clan have to just pick another bloods if one is vetoed.
Therefore we firmly ask to auto immune cba hero in the tgs round, and i point out that Frankie had the same thought at the start, so xCs and IC are not trying or dicatating anything, thats Eot and Dy, we just agreed with what Frankie said.
As far im concerned the only clan that dont have known Hero mirror players is RB, xCs and IC both agreed to not pick any CB's againts them.
For the rest 1 immunity and 2/3 veto to each clan is fine for xcs.
I'm personally very against this and this wasn't even a discussion point till Frankie mentioned it. Frankie only mentioned it as an idea, so you're welcome to discuss it but to claim "eot and dy" are 'dictating' when it's only recently been put forward as an idea by (only) frankie is a little dishonest. You're the ones who claim you wont play if the rules and settings aren't how you want; that's dictating, everyone else is merely discussing, you're the ones who keep reminding us you might not play if the settings don't suit you.
Anyway...
Think for a second:
XCS pick CBA Hero, have auto immunity
XCS pick CBA, use immunity
this means in the TG round, other teams vetos are useless, as neither of xcs tg picks can be veto'd.. and since it's worthless to use vetos in early rounds, it makes vetos pointless for certain clans pretty much. Essentially you'll be able to force ALL your picks in TG round, while being able to veto one of the opponents picks 3x (leaving them with a less than optimal map)...this is just way too unbalanced. This isn't a 'little advantage', it's a MASSIVE one.
Remember TIW's goal isn't to 'mirror' the lobby, it's to promote diversity and have a fun tournament. The immunity rule means you can force one of your CB's anyway, without having an unfair advantage over other clans. Also if we were trying to reflect the lobby, we'd have cba hero RANDOM civ here, not mirror.
You claim it doesn't give an advantage, but it literally is the textbook definition of an advantage.... clans that prefer CBA hero mirror have a huge advantage in TG rounds other clans do not get.
I don't speak for everyone, but i know if this rule is in place Eot's motivation for this tournament rapidly drops at the very least. (I'm not saying we will or won't pull out, i don't know and it's not my decision to make, but i know it will at least demotivate us and others)
Personally for me, i'd propose CBA Hero, CBA, and RCB all auto make it into the map pool for every round... this is a 'little advantage', forcing the map in the TG round and leaving a clan with an immunity to use on their other pick as well as CBA hero, rendering both of their TG picks un-vetoable is something more than a 'little advantage'
Just my 2 cents, not trying to upset anyone with my opinion...
From what i understood your concern is xcs having immunity on both Cba and Hero because we are the best in the two most popular map of cs lobby? that fixes if we remove the 1 immunity, just 2/3 vetos.
Being able to use an immunity at all during all stages of the event can be considered an improvement for the CB clans overall, previously you had no immunity in the final stage. There was also no immunity given to the seeded clans (clans placed in the Gold League?).
That being said TIW is about the random map pack (which is voted in). Every set decider, if needed, is played with the random pack. The tournament is meant to push every participant be adaptive and good overall.
As Rick brought out, having an auto-immunity on CBA Hero, if picked in the 1v1 or 2v2 or 3v3/4v4 rounds and having a regular immunity already protects both of the home picks for 3v3/4v4 stage, which is unspeakable, it would potentially allow to secure two points for free - maybe with minimal competition what-so-ever and rendering vetoes almost useless for 3v3/4v4 round.
An auto-immunity for CBA Hero, if chosen, and no regular immunity at all only secures potentially one point. This is can be considered biased towards CB clans, however, as previously noted it can be tolerated due to the fact of the map pool that is going to likely contain more bloods/alternative scenarios than CBs, in other words map pool by default could favour blooders/alt players. Both countering each other out.
From what i understood your concern is xcs having immunity on both Cba and Hero because we are the best in the two most popular map of cs lobby, that fixes if we remove the 1 immunity, just 2/3 vetos.
But that still gives clans favoring CBA hero a massive advantage, because half the TG round is forced upon by them, which is a pretty significant advantage.
And again, at no point has there ever been a mandate TIW is supposed to mirror the lobby, and even if there was it would need to be random civ, and not mirror. So the fact CBA hero is the most popular map in the lobby (in random civ) is irrelevant, what's relevant is how popular it is among participating clans.
Anyway, I guess we'll see what others think as this is all about discussion and democracy etc etc... i only speak for myself and nobody else, but I am firmly against forcing a map in any circumstances, unless it's a level playing field (i.e, every clan gets an immunity).
Gonna suggest it once more:
auto immunity for cba hero OR cba (can't pick both) => you give the CB clans a reasonable advantage for being good at the most played map in the lobby, while at the same time making sure that there's enough variety (playing both CBA and CBA hero seems kinda stupid, but it can still happen if one clan picks CBA hero and the other clan picks CBA)
Advantage for someone? I dont think so
Advantage for someone? I dont think so
Since we are few clans, does it matter how much time you can play to enjoy?
Therefore we firmly ask to auto immune cba hero in the tgs round, and i point out that Frankie had the same thought at the start, so xCs and IC are not trying or dicatating anything, thats Eot and Dy, we just agreed with what Frankie said.
As far im concerned the only clan that dont have known Hero mirror players is RB, xCs and IC both agreed to not pick any CB's againts them.
For the rest 1 immunity and 2/3 veto to each clan is fine for xcs.
Therefore we firmly ask to auto immune cba hero in the tgs round, and i point out that Frankie had the same thought at the start, so xCs and IC are not trying or dicatating anything, thats Eot and Dy, we just agreed with what Frankie said.
As far im concerned the only clan that dont have known Hero mirror players is RB, xCs and IC both agreed to not pick any CB's againts them.
For the rest 1 immunity and 2/3 veto to each clan is fine for xcs.
Anyway...
Think for a second:
XCS pick CBA Hero, have auto immunity
XCS pick CBA, use immunity
this means in the TG round, other teams vetos are useless, as neither of xcs tg picks can be veto'd.. and since it's worthless to use vetos in early rounds, it makes vetos pointless for certain clans pretty much. Essentially you'll be able to force ALL your picks in TG round, while being able to veto one of the opponents picks 3x (leaving them with a less than optimal map)...this is just way too unbalanced. This isn't a 'little advantage', it's a MASSIVE one.
Remember TIW's goal isn't to 'mirror' the lobby, it's to promote diversity and have a fun tournament. The immunity rule means you can force one of your CB's anyway, without having an unfair advantage over other clans. Also if we were trying to reflect the lobby, we'd have cba hero RANDOM civ here, not mirror.
You claim it doesn't give an advantage, but it literally is the textbook definition of an advantage.... clans that prefer CBA hero mirror have a huge advantage in TG rounds other clans do not get.
I don't speak for everyone, but i know if this rule is in place Eot's motivation for this tournament rapidly drops at the very least. (I'm not saying we will or won't pull out, i don't know and it's not my decision to make, but i know it will at least demotivate us and others)
Personally for me, i'd propose CBA Hero, CBA, and RCB all auto make it into the map pool for every round... this is a 'little advantage', forcing the map in the TG round and leaving a clan with an immunity to use on their other pick as well as CBA hero, rendering both of their TG picks un-vetoable is something more than a 'little advantage'
Just my 2 cents, not trying to upset anyone with my opinion...
That being said TIW is about the random map pack (which is voted in). Every set decider, if needed, is played with the random pack. The tournament is meant to push every participant be adaptive and good overall.
As Rick brought out, having an auto-immunity on CBA Hero, if picked in the 1v1 or 2v2 or 3v3/4v4 rounds and having a regular immunity already protects both of the home picks for 3v3/4v4 stage, which is unspeakable, it would potentially allow to secure two points for free - maybe with minimal competition what-so-ever and rendering vetoes almost useless for 3v3/4v4 round.
An auto-immunity for CBA Hero, if chosen, and no regular immunity at all only secures potentially one point. This is can be considered biased towards CB clans, however, as previously noted it can be tolerated due to the fact of the map pool that is going to likely contain more bloods/alternative scenarios than CBs, in other words map pool by default could favour blooders/alt players. Both countering each other out.
And again, at no point has there ever been a mandate TIW is supposed to mirror the lobby, and even if there was it would need to be random civ, and not mirror. So the fact CBA hero is the most popular map in the lobby (in random civ) is irrelevant, what's relevant is how popular it is among participating clans.
Anyway, I guess we'll see what others think as this is all about discussion and democracy etc etc... i only speak for myself and nobody else, but I am firmly against forcing a map in any circumstances, unless it's a level playing field (i.e, every clan gets an immunity).
auto immunity for cba hero OR cba (can't pick both) => you give the CB clans a reasonable advantage for being good at the most played map in the lobby, while at the same time making sure that there's enough variety (playing both CBA and CBA hero seems kinda stupid, but it can still happen if one clan picks CBA hero and the other clan picks CBA)